Curse

manaleak34 · Jan 21, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by leguma

-Scarred Earth: Bring it back and make it a Kill count with 5 minutes for the initial fight, and another 5 minutes for the fight between the two winners (also implies removing the lever).
-HoH Kill Count: have the two contestants fight it out for 5 minutes and then have the winner take on the holders for another 5 minutes.

I'm assuming on these maps after the five minutes the teams with the lowest kill points is automatically defeated?

If so that sounds very good.

phasola · Jan 21, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Didn't play at all this weekend but i would like to know :
#1 : Why didn't you do these changes in 8v8 ?
#2 : Why is favor of the gods still present ? I want to farm FoW all day

.

Razz L Dazzle · Jan 21, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AYss

Thank god and let's hope...

Sounds nice... Only I'm afraid it won't work too well. It's all about who got bigger and faster recharging spike, or more AoE. What about all the pressure/degen teams? You see... When team#1 is pressing team#2's backline I think that a kill scored by team#3 on team#2 is a kill steal.

Keep up good work guys

. I may not agree with some changes proposed in this weekend, but I definately agree that changes are needed.

This i see is the biggest inherant problem with kill counts in a 3 team blood-fest. I don't like kill count but possibly a two team 5 minute kill count on Broken tower would be nice compared to the 30 minute scarred earth's of the past. I think one of the biggest failures is 3 team kill count which i think be scrapped as a solution to enlivening HA.

Once again we beg for a new map or two. Lots of the new win conditions aren't feasible because maps like Broken tower are too confined to test this style of play.

Bringing back burial mounds with limited space was a good choice.

Kyle The Piemaster · Jan 22, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

-The objectives are good, they need to be implemented on different maps however. Halls is too narrow for them. I'm going to assume that these new Halls objectives were made to prevent holding builds, keep kill count on Broken and Courtyard and IMO you will get rid of most overly defensive builds.

-Change the timers on Courtyard and Broken Tower to 6-7 minutes. Kill count is great for getting rid of overly defensive builds and it's one of the most fun matches I've played in HA in a while.

-Another problem that I haven't seen brought up in the forums or anywhere really seen come up anywhere is the ressurection in HoH. Using skill slots for res skills is somewhat useless with a 1 minute shrine res. Killing or even wiping teams gives hardly any benefit on relics or altars.

-Implement the new treasure chest in halls immediately, it's getting a lot of attention and I know a LOT of people that will be playing halls if you keep the new rewards.

Solutions: Keep kill count on Courtyard and Broken Tower.

We already have 2 relic maps, and IMO it doesn't work too well in halls. Drop Relics from halls and keep the two we already have.

Create a new map to implement a shrine/altar capping objective. IMO Implement it between Dark Chambers and Courtyard. Even during dead hours, teams usually don't skip from Dark Chambers to Halls which would usually require a team to win this before getting to Halls (Also assuming more people start playing HA). Yeah making a new map will probably take some work

. This would also force teams to split and would support builds with self heals. I have never once seen a warrior with heal sig, a ranger with troll, or any of the many heals in the dervish line. One of the strongest counters to holding builds and spike builds is splitting, and there are no maps in HA that support this.

Can't think of anything else at the moment, might add some more later.

Hephaistion · Jan 22, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle The Piemaster

, keep kill count on Broken and Courtyard and IMO you will get rid of most overly defensive builds.

You fail to realise that kill count doesn't just get you rid of overly defensive builds but of also of all forms of pressure being degeneration, mesmers, choking gas rangers, ritualist spirits, etc. These builds are the cornerstone of the balanced groups playing Heroes' Ascent and this update is killing them mercilessly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leguma

-Broken Tower: Keep the kill count but make it a 1on1 with a 5 minute timer.

You do know what will happen? A spike team will kill someone and run around for 5 minutes.

The Silver Star · Jan 22, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Designers are reading forum threads, engaging in discussions, playing HA themselves—all to better assess the first round of potential changes. You see a few comments on the boards like, “they made these changes to please PvEers and newbs” and honestly, that not at all the case. The designers involved most directly with HA testing stated emphatically that these potential changes were not designed to cater to any particular group. Designers will continue to discuss these changes both internally and externally well before the second round of changes takes place.

Honestly your designers need people like me, im not asking for a job or anything but they need people to update them and give them general views on what people want and then try to give it to them. I play both PvE and PvP, not jsut a little PvP and lots of PvE or lots of PvP and a little PvE so i can use PvE chars in PvP, i play a mixed balance of bothh and have many friends in PvE and PvP, i know what they want but you dont because the majority dont post on fan-sites, either because they dont want to, dont have the time, or simply dont trust A-net to read there thoughts. Its just like going to vote, they have the right to but they dont want to because they hope it will turn out in there favor or they dont have trust in the higher power in the first place (This being A-net).

You are obviously trying to help PvP, heres what went wrong.

The Battle Isles were inplaced which severely damaged the link between PvE and PvP. Even though i know this change was needed with expantions etc. Also you shouldnt have to win in TA/RA to be bale to play in Heroes Ascent some people give up because they cant win in Random Arenas to never even get as far as Heroes Ascent, also changing to 6v6 really wasnt what was needed, it felt more like a short-term fix to problems in Heroes Ascent and a short-term fix it was indeed, and numbers in Heroes Ascent declined very fast after the first few weeks the changes were implemented rather than increase.

The test weekend was good and i liked it how it was a test rather than here have these updates and good luck sort of thing, but no new maps didnt help thats really what Heroes Ascent needs, eg the removal of Scared and the Introduction of one sort of completely new Murderball match, the change to Hall Of Heroes was also not what was needed, what was really needed was skill balances, for example Searing Flames (This is just an example) its not that "Its overpowered" well actualyl it is over-powered but oh well, look at it compared to other Fire Elite skills and other elites simply do not compare to it, it simply replaces them, so other fire elites should either be buffed or searing slightly nerfed because it is not balanced compared to other Fire elites.

If your designers are playing Heroes Ascent i would be more than welcome to show them through and outline the problems that are there so that they can get a better feel for the problems rather than joining some team that doesnt get to experience most of the maps.

Thanks.

PS: I feel that all the changes so far have not fixed current problems but simply created more, i think its time to fix the problems rather than creatre more.

Wow i just thought of an awsome example!

Ok so the Mars bar was released, people loved it sales were high etc. But slowly sales dropped, this is what ahppens after a while but did they change the mars bar? no they didnt they advertise it more etc and if they want something like it but not the same they release another product! but none of the other products eg Mars Delight do aswell do they? thats because the original is always the ebst (In most cases) What the designers etc have done is like taking a perfectly good mars bar and taking out the chocolate. Its also like car companies that makes lots of models of cars every few years they "re-vamp" each model, they dont just change a 3 seater car into a 5 seater? no they just make it look better adding new bits to it and not taking anything away. So you could say youve jsut torn out all the seats stuck in less and changed a saloon to a sports car.

(Worst example EVER but i suppose it gets the point across

)

George · Jan 22, 2007, 11:18 AM // 11:18

thumbs up on idea of kill count + 1 v 1 , anything else is just a mess and the outcome is rather random

Paddypower · Jan 22, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Change HOH back to what it was, but leave teh other maps the same..
AND BRING back 8v8!

Merlins Valor · Jan 22, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Kill Count was lots of mindless fun, but it doesn't promote any kind of skill or tactic really, its all about " target teh weak targets ie monks and all out damamge on them" It does shun subtler ways of killing such as degen amongst other things, but i still thought it was fun.

I would have liked new maps, but good job getting rid of scarred earth that map was seriously annoying especially since that lever thing was implemented.

I assure you though that if you have a test weekend with 8v8 you will see SO many more people playing you'll realise that its the one thing most people agree on.

Skill nerfs, i believe there should be a team of people ( not in the same guilds or territories ) that should be designated to study the HA meta so that every month skills can be reworked to force new build creations ( im gonna get alot of hate for this comment), not in ridiculous ways ofcourse.

Would be nice to see new conditions and situations in relic maps and maybe bonuses for each win from UW to HOH ( ie items or gold for each victory )

merlins valor

Unnerf HA pl0x · Jan 22, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

throwing out the altar holding kinda sucks IMO, the random HoH matches are kind of cool, but all a team needs is 1 or 2 ward of foes for the relic runs and 60 seconds isn't long enough to get a relic capped, as much as people hate relics they go and add them to HoH, GG anet.

Kyle The Piemaster · Jan 23, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hephaistion

You fail to realise that kill count doesn't just get you rid of overly defensive builds but of also of all forms of pressure being degeneration, mesmers, choking gas rangers, ritualist spirits, etc. These builds are the cornerstone of the balanced groups playing Heroes' Ascent and this update is killing them mercilessly.

Good pressure builds won't be stopped by a 3 team kill count match. Especially the one your guild runs in which you mindlessly spam your hexes on everything you see. When you run a gimmick build that exploits soul reaping like yours you can easily pressure out 2 teams in under 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how many kills a team had if they get wiped. And if not, then it's because both teams are on you, and then you don't have to worry about getting your kills stolen

Infectious · Jan 23, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

So just beacuse his build is useless on killcount matchs does that mean every other pressure build should be killed?

Hephaistion · Jan 23, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle The Piemaster

Good pressure builds won't be stopped by a 3 team kill count match. Especially the one your guild runs in which you mindlessly spam your hexes on everything you see. When you run a gimmick build that exploits soul reaping like yours you can easily pressure out 2 teams in under 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how many kills a team had if they get wiped. And if not, then it's because both teams are on you, and then you don't have to worry about getting your kills stolen

I was talking about mesmer shutdown, ranger interrupts, conditions and heavy hex and much more. This is much broader then just our hex build. So please keep your comments for a "Please nerf Jagged" Thread.

reverend moonie · Jan 23, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Ill try to be civil......
we want 8 man back,,,u know it so do it. i cant make builds with 6 man that are totaly straight forrow simple crap,
the lack of new maps is sad..
kill points are inherently flawed....especialy in a 3 team map.i see no saving it
murder ball might work if the map wasnt cramped and it was 1v1..but other wise a moron could see that it was gona be ele fest
and even thought i love it..u cant unnerf beguieling haze like that. dazed is a little too powerful to be that free with it
ditch the new changes,,,,bring back 8 man ,,add 2 new map,, and do a 8 man skill balance..do a skill balance every damn week if thats what u gotta do
...
peace

Death_From_Above · Jan 23, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

The majority dont post on fan-sites, either because they dont want to, dont have the time, or simply dont trust A-net to read there thoughts. Its just like going to vote, they have the right to but they dont want to because they hope it will turn out in there favor or they dont have trust in the higher power in the first place (This being A-net).

You are obviously trying to help PvP, heres what went wrong.

The Battle Isles were inplaced which severely damaged the link between PvE and PvP. Even though i know this change was needed with expantions etc. Also you shouldnt have to win in TA/RA to be bale to play in Heroes Ascent some people give up because they cant win in Random Arenas to never even get as far as Heroes Ascent, also changing to 6v6 really wasnt what was needed, it felt more like a short-term fix to problems in Heroes Ascent and a short-term fix it was indeed, and numbers in Heroes Ascent declined very fast after the first few weeks the changes were implemented rather than increase.

PS: I feel that all the changes so far have not fixed current problems but simply created more, i think its time to fix the problems rather than creatre more.

Wow i just thought of an awsome example!

Ok so the Mars bar was released, people loved it sales were high etc. But slowly sales dropped, this is what ahppens after a while but did they change the mars bar? no they didnt they advertise it more etc and if they want something like it but not the same they release another product! but none of the other products eg Mars Delight do aswell do they? thats because the original is always the ebst (In most cases) What the designers etc have done is like taking a perfectly good mars bar and taking out the chocolate. Its also like car companies that makes lots of models of cars every few years they "re-vamp" each model, they dont just change a 3 seater car into a 5 seater? no they just make it look better adding new bits to it and not taking anything away. So you could say youve jsut torn out all the seats stuck in less and changed a saloon to a sports car.

(Worst example EVER but i suppose it gets the point across

)

Dude that is superb. I dont think its the worst example ever i think your being to modest. I recon it is one of the best. As you clearly stated before, most people dont post on forms, i for one didnt untill 6v6 came out as i was wondering why, when everyone else was agreeing that it sucked. But this is the point, who then if most pvpers arnt using the forms was consulted (player wise) for this descision. This is the question i have asked over and over again with no answers. Its not as if players where well informed about how gw were takinging in feedback as to if people wanted 6v6 in the first place. If so then im sure many pvpers would have protested agasint it as i along with many friends were board by the end of the double fame 6v6 weekend just praying for 8v8 back. To be honest with you im not even sure y how many months down the line 8v8 is still not back.

Its almost like gw are trying to force 6v6 upon us and trying to get something that cant work to work. As a result there suffering for it, the game which when first released was promissed to have excellent pvp is slowly losin all that hard earned work because of stubboness. I dont know what gw where thinking by thinking they could oppress the views of the people and expect everyone to sit back and hang around. Its like come on its been now how many months of no good HA for me and friends since 6v6 came out. We dont even bother go in now. I wonder how many others are pacient like us to hang around because 2 weeks fair enough but months no ty. As i said earlier its almost like killing the fame you have earned and by oppressing the views of the people its almost like a goverment making rules which the people dont like so they rebell or migrate. Theres a saying, if its not broke dont fix it at HA was not broke with 8v8. Im sourly disapointed with ANET with there approuch to HA as i was always one to congradulate them but i think its time to start listerning to the players because one thing you have to realise is although yes you orginaly created guildwars and did a good job. Your not perfect and will make mistakes so if people see those mistakes listern to them rather than living in denial believing your still right.

Thats how a company grows, they accept correction, blizzard and diablo is a good example of a company who doesnt and look what happened to them. Fair enough you wanted to try something new but the time scale of this is just rediculous. So how much longer do ANET expect to do testing or research before they realise 8v8 is the way? What gw needs is originality. Nitefall was a good example of this with the assasin for example and combo hits, stuff like that. Not drastic changes which change the very foundation of the game. Going back to my first point and main point for this post. Gw rushed things and never did enough research of players or the community before making such a big change and to make it worse, even when it was realised HA is flawed with 6v6 they still persisted. Its like going with a team to do a quest in gw and all of them have hard ress (rebirth). And you challange a boss of which you get him to low health and his health dosent regen when hes not being attacked. But your whole team but 3 people die and get -5 dp but the other 3 of the team make it away so they can res the dead team mates and then kill the boss. This same senario applies here. Guildwars, although they lost quite a few players with the 6v6 at the start. Could have got them and rescused HA if they decided to take some steps back to there original idea rather than hacking at something that would only result in gg.

Pelea · Jan 23, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I think they should really leave hoh as an altar map.Kill count is a lot like WoW and it aint really that hard to win halls now.Sure there will be holding builds but still they arent invincible,are they?Every build has a weak point just find it and take advantage of it.

Dutchie · Jan 23, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

As I said in other threaths before, HA got boring, and with all these tests/changes it only keeps getting more boring and bassicly you can play 2 types of builds: Spike, Huge Aoe damage, thats it. Not trying to whine, but if you would consider bringing back 8v8, thaink off all the possible builds!! It will be so much more fun then, as you can make a lot more fun builds that can counter each other better, which will prob. attract a bigger group of players to HA again, because it's been a long time since i've seen more then 3 ID's.

2_fingers · Jan 24, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchie

because it's been a long time since i've seen more then 3 ID's.

Speaking of which. Beginning of event, 6 ID, with ID 1 actually being full
Reaching end of event, back to 1-2 ID.

If anything, i think that should tell that the majority of the people perhaps were excited about the changes, but got bored about it within a day. Must say, the effort and the decision to test the possible changes is a good one, but one can only hope that they would make changes that actually can result in a more interesting/revitalised HA.

Diage · Jan 25, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I said this once in another forum, and ill say it again here... the reason they changed 8v8 to 6v6 is because of the decline in players, people were already leaveing prior to 6v6 ever happening, the change was jus something that made it go quicker, it would of always happened.. but heres how it falls...

back in the day when tombs was the place to play and was very popular, there was really one reason people played it so heavily.. to get the nice reward at the end. As soon as Anet removed it there started a decline... They said initialy, it was always annoying haveing 6 people in a team and not being able to go in so they made it 6v6.

I'll once again compare this to a maze, lets say hypothetically you enjoy mazes... Whats the point of a maze? to get to the end.. of course! Now, if you got lets say a nice prize at the end of the maze, you would go through the maze over and over again. Now lets say at the end of the maze your basicly given a pat on the back, well.. thats not very rewarding.. maybe youll just do it once or twice. After that youll go onto a new maze and play that until you realize the pat on the back is not worth the repetition... All Anet has ever done is adjust the maze. They removed the nice prize they once had there, and in its place a near useless set of nothing. Granted when i won hoh over the weekend, one guy got a nice lil fiery gladias and another got a really sweet shield i forget its name, and the flame of balth was a nice addition too.. but its not near enough to keep me goin through the maze over and over. These changes are as anet has always done, all theyre doingis adjusting the maze, and in time people will get tired. You can change it back to 8v8 if you'd like, but in my opinion it would increase the overall players drasticly at first, and then begin to decay once again as it was before the 6v6 change.

Also, instead of makeing the maze to hoh longer by adding more maps, perhaps they should do more of a rotation, kind of like they did for hoh.. You go in first and have a random roll of a dice to play on map 1 2 3 of the underworld, perhaps make each one a diffrent objective or perhaps jus make them with a refreshing new appearance.. the same old same old gets dull in time... then after that set, you go to another random selection of another set of maps, and so on and so on, perhaps you could institute the random happenings on the earlier maps rather then the hoh... or perhaps keep it in hoh, idc.. but i would REALLY love to see better and more maps as well as better rewards, something that would actualy give me the feeling it once did.

Nurse With Wound · Feb 01, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Thread closed because new test weekend is coming soon...